"We have a story like that," Goneril said. "With a magical apple. But our god is male. I don't see how it relates to Fiona, though," she said, as she leaned back against the pillows.

"Well, that is the only other world that there is meant to be: the hole, and on the other end of it the demon-realm. Danaan gave birth to everything, and Danaan did not give birth to those. Therefore they are wholly unnatural, tainted."

Goneril raised an eyebrow. "So you're saying that we're demons, is that it?" she asked, a bit pointedly.

"I am saying that obviously you are not, so where are they? Who is?" He shrugged and reached up to untie his hair. "You say you have the same story with another god. So whose story is the right one?"

"It isn't exactly the same," Goneril replied. "Our story is that our god had a magical tree, that had a fruit on it, and eating the fruit gave you knowledge of good and evil, and God told the first humans that if they touched the tree, they would die, which of course was not true. So they touched it, and ten they are of its fruit, and God was so angry with them that he banished them from his presence, and that is why humankind lives such short lives in such suffering, because we do not have the grace of our own god."

She eyed him. "I don't think either of them are right," she said. "It's not because I'm bitter, it's because I'm a humanist."

Faolin misheard this last as 'human-ish' and wondered briefly what was only approximately human about her. "Our story runs a bit the other way," he said wryly. "Danaan gave birth to all people, but her husband Lugh made humans on his own, out of his forge, without the Danaan's permission. Therefore are they somewhat bigger than real people but not quite as sturdy. Or as long-lived. I am not sure what you mean by human-ish, though."

"Ist," Goneril replied. "Humanist. It's a school of thought that believes in human-- or, I suppose, mortal, since it would include you-- agency over that of the divine. We believe that morality is built on the consensus of society rather than being handed down from unseen immortal presence and that we should focus on personal values rather than the divine."

"The trouble is that I've rarely seen a society that is much good at arriving at a single consensus, moral or otherwise, when left to its own devices" he said. "It has been my experience that morality tends to be dictated by whomever is in charge at the moment."

"Yet," Goneril replied. "Some societies are getting closer. The American colonies are claiming they aren't colonies anymore, and their system of government is entirely elected by the people and answerable to the people. The French tried the same thing, but it backfired."

He gave an incredulous snort. "I haven't a lot of faith in the people, either. Perhaps it might work best with your people; they tend to . . . to transition much faster than we do. One leader passes a policy and by the time it applies to anyone, the person who passed it has been dead for fifty years and you needn't heed it anymore."